Poor crop - soil problems?

If you're just starting out in the world of kitchen garden growing, then this is the place to ask for help. Our experienced forum members may have the answer you need!

Moderators: KG Steve, Chantal, Tigger, peter, Chief Spud

Roger Williams
KG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: France

Hi Folks - been growing veg for a few years without really knowing what I'm doing but this year my crops have been terrible. Others in our area of France look to have done ok so I think the rain's been adequate but I notice they spread lots of manure (which we cannot do due to access restrictions) and also white crystals (fertilizer?). I have reguarly spread the ash from our wood-burner on the soil during the winter which I though was good. Is wood ash helpful and what else would you advise please to regenerate the soil's fertility each year. Thanks
User avatar
Ricard with an H
KG Regular
Posts: 2145
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:16 am
Location: North Pembrokeshire. West Wales.

Hello Roger.

I'll let more experienced growers give you advise though I would like to share what I've done during my first two seasons.

Growing in three raised beds I prepared each bed differently, One bed was heavily treated with well-rotted cow-muck which was left to over-winter, another bed was lightly treated lightly with fish-blood and bone plus home made compost-manure and the third bed was lightly treated with cow-muck.

Both beds treated with cow muck have performed very well, the third bed was OK but produced miserable onions of which 50% were only twice the size of the sets though carrots are happy in that bed.

I also have 20 comfrey plants producing liquid feed.

If you can get your hands on chicken pellets and fish-blood-bone they are both accessible and easy to use if you have an access problem though expensive in small quantities.

You didn't say how much ground you grow on, I have chicken pellets delivered direct from the producer in 20 kilos sacks. They come at half the price of seven kilo tubs though I buy at least six bags.

All my nutrient other than comfrey liquid went into ground either the previous winter or very early spring.

Comparing my treated raised beds with other ground I have that won't even grow chives I've realised how important soil preparation is though it's all inconvenient and very hard work.

Right now i'm preparing another raised bed for next year and based on my experience just plonking some soil in isn't going to get me what I need, so, final layer will be cow-muck, soil, cow-muck and New Horizon peat-free recycled garden waste (They call it compost) which will loosen my sticky soil.

You'll only get out, what you put in is what I learnt.
How are you supposed to start and maintain a healthy lifestyle if it completely removes a wine lover’s reason to live?
Richard.
User avatar
alan refail
KG Regular
Posts: 7252
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:00 am
Location: Chwilog Gogledd Orllewin Cymru Northwest Wales
Been thanked: 5 times

Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
User avatar
FelixLeiter
KG Regular
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

I would go along with growing green manures, too. However, something remedial does need to be done to get your soil in good heart beforehand. Wood ash does contain plant nutrients but should be used sparingly and it can be damaging to soil structure if overused (it is disastrous on a clay soil). It can also alter the soil's pH, tending to turn it acidic. Soil pH is important since it can affect the availability to your crops of certain nutrients. I suggest you test your soil's pH. If it is acidic, I would certainly apply lime, especially if you are to add manure of some form (which you absolutely need to do, as suggested by others) which itself tends to acidify the soil. Applying artificial fertiliser, which is most likely what your neighbours are doing, will go some way to improving fertility, and given the constraints of poor access, is the easiest option. Even so, adding organic matter (manure, garden compost, worm waste or what have you) is essential to a healthy soil. It's a lot of work, there's no getting away from that fact, but the rewards will be great. A good starting point is to set up a compost heap as soon as you can, or a wormery. By making and using your own compost, In time it will cut down how much organic material you need to bring in.
Allotment, but little achieved.
User avatar
Geoff
KG Regular
Posts: 5569
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: Forest of Bowland
Been thanked: 128 times

As part of a 'grow your own' campaign near us I was asked to give a talk on how I grow things, I didn't fancy that but had an open garden day instead and handed out a little booklet I wrote. Here are a few extracts that might give you some ideas.
Soil
Two things have the biggest influence on your growing success - soil and weather. You can do a bit about the weather with cloches etc. but you can do plenty about the soil.
We all start from different conditions but we all strive for the same; deep, easily worked, healthy and fertile soil. I think how you get there is roughly the same whether you start from sand or clay or something in between. I am convinced the only way is to dig and preferably to dig deeply, regularly though not every year. When you dig you must add organic matter which can be compost you make yourself, something you buy in bags, various well rotted manures or even fairly fresh manure if that is all you can get. The important bit is to add something even if it isn't ideal, it might not work well the first year but each time you dig you'll be mixing in the layers from previous years - continual improvement. It is normal to try and dig heavy soils in the Autumn leaving them pretty rough for the frost to break down. Lighter soils are usually dug in the Spring. Don't be too hung up on timing, do it when you can and when the weather lets you. Following this routine gets the texture right.

Compost
Lots is written about making the perfect compost heap by combining the right ratios of so called nitrogen (green and fresh) and carbon (dry and woody including paper, cardboard and straw) and mixing and turning. I find heaps never come out consistently to the crumbly ideal but that you can use them according to their quality. Use your best compost for mulches or stirring in near the surface and bury the not so good in the digging process. As I said above getting some organic matter into the soil is what matters, poor quality compost will continue to rot down in the soil and when you dig again you'll find a nice black layer that gets mixed in as you dig. I collect together all the kitchen waste, weeds and cut down foliage then when I cut the grass I build a heap with layers of this, grass, shredded paper (all that junk mail) and comfrey leaves. If I think it is a bit dry I add some water then cover it with carpet. Before I top it up at the next cut I mix it up as well as I can with a fork. If a batch doesn't seem to be breaking down I might fork it from one bin to another and layer it with grass to get it to heat up again.

Fertiliser
Vegetable plants need to be fed, you are taking them away so you have to put back what you remove. Using bulky organic matter in the digging process does contribute to the fertility as well as the texture but it is simplest (particularly in the early years) to assume it doesn't. I confess to being a bit fiddly about feeding but you will get good results by keeping it simple. Plants don't know if their fertiliser comes from an organic or inorganic source and there is no substantial evidence that soil micro-organisms care either. Inorganic feeds are usually quicker acting and cheaper, organic the opposite. So the choice is yours! Most packets of fertiliser will suggest an application rate and you won't go too far wrong if you follow it. Something balanced like fish, blood and bone or Growmore (Growmore is a UK thing, a balanced inorganic fertiliser with 7 parts each nitrogen, phosphate and potash) should do the trick.

I agree with Felix about the wood ash. Use some, particularly for onions, but not too much. If you have fruit trees or bushes you could use it round them otherwise add to these composts heaps you are going to start.
Roger Williams
KG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: France

Thanks to all - very interesting and helpful ...... local cow-muck sounds the answer if I can get it to our garden.

I've just done a soil test - ph7 - neutral - which I assume simplifies corrective action this autumn.
Roger Williams
KG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: France

I hope I'm not going from one extreme to the other but I've started collecting grass-cuttings for autumn 2014 and ordered a 20kg bag of chicken pellets for my 100smetre plot for application as soon as the plot is clear (beans & parsnips remain). I've also found an old (at least 12years old) sealed bag of 20+5+8+2 NPK + Magnesium fertiliser in the cellar ....... can I apply that as well as the pellets this autumn, please. Also do I leave pellets &/or fertiliser to sit atop the soil or dig them in asap?
Thanks again for your invaluable advise.
User avatar
peter
KG Regular
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: Near Stansted airport
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Contact:

Save the artificial (NPK) for use shortly before planting and as a feed during the growing season. The chemical pellets are somewhat more soluble than compressed chicken doings and will run away with the rains over winter. :wink:
Do not put off thanking people when they have helped you, as they may not be there to thank later.

I support http://www.hearingdogs.org.uk/
AlexMason
KG Regular
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:31 am
Contact:

You can use biological soil conditioners or bio compost for soil quality improvement and to increase plant growth.
Roger Williams
KG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: France

Sorry for my ignorance but what are 'biological soil conditioners or bio compost' please?
PLUMPUDDING
KG Regular
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Stocksbridge, S. Yorks

I was under the impression that wood ash was alkaline Felix does something happen to make it make the ground acidic?
User avatar
alan refail
KG Regular
Posts: 7252
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:00 am
Location: Chwilog Gogledd Orllewin Cymru Northwest Wales
Been thanked: 5 times

PLUMPUDDING wrote:I was under the impression that wood ash was alkaline Felix does something happen to make it make the ground acidic?



According to RHS wood ash is certainly not acidic.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Pro ... px?pid=621
Cred air o bob deg a glywi, a thi a gei rywfaint bach o wir (hen ddihareb Gymraeg)
Believe one tenth of what you hear, and you will get some little truth (old Welsh proverb)
User avatar
Johnboy
KG Regular
Posts: 5824
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: NW Herefordshire

Wood Ash can been exceedingly alkali up to 9 or 10 on the Ph scale and this is why the warning "use sparingly" is in general use.
JB.
User avatar
Ricard with an H
KG Regular
Posts: 2145
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:16 am
Location: North Pembrokeshire. West Wales.

This subject for me is very interesting and as each year passes each of my raised beds and garden strips (Mostly flowers) improves noticeably.

Back-end of last year I created the fourth raised bed I refer to in an earlier post, this was filled with 50% New Horizon composted green waste mixed with soil/sand and ten years old cow muck. Right now I have autumn sown garlic and spring sown onion doing very well, I also grew winter salads sown in Autumn that didn't do so well which shows the soil needs a little time to get itself organised.

The soil in flower beds was a mix of sub-soil and stony clay from disturbed foundations when the barn was turned from a cow shed into a home, the annual addition of cow muck over the last three years is turning this piece of soil into a nice place to plant things that actually grow compared to another strip of soil that hasn't had this annual attention that is like its had cement mixed in when I try to loosen it up for planting.

I'm very lucky to have this free and easily available resource though I buy 6X for the domestic grass where I pickup, 6X is slower but has shown to be much better for the grass long term compared to quick acting nitrogen type granuals that I can buy more cheaply at the farmers Co-Op. Is this my imagination fuelled by the feel-good factor of spreading organic material ?
How are you supposed to start and maintain a healthy lifestyle if it completely removes a wine lover’s reason to live?
Richard.
sally wright
KG Regular
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:32 pm
Location: Cambridge

Dear Richard,
no your imagination is not at fault here, the nutrients in the organic lawn feed are not all available at once as the product has to break down over time to release all of it's nutrients. This allows the lawn to stay greener for longer.

The artificial fertilizer has all the nutrients available instantly (unless stated otherwise on the packet). This can lead to the lawn being mega green within a week and yellow again after a month. This is especially true in areas with a high rainfall and this effect is exaggerated the more sandy the soil is underneath the lawn.
regards Sally Wright.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic