Forget organics, now it’s biodynamics

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Forget organics, now it’s biodynamics

Postby KG magazine » Tue May 29, 2007 11:23 am

A world-first is under construction at the headquarters of the UK’s organic gardening charity – Garden Organic.

Thought to be the only one of its kind in the world, the Elysia Biodynamic Garden will be unveiled this month (July) at Garden Organic Ryton, near Coventry and is the first garden to be created under biodynamic principles and open to the public.

Biodynamic principles have been in existence for decades but go beyond basic organic practices, requiring a much deeper understanding and connection with the land.

The unique space has been funded by Elysia the UK distributor for the Dr Hauschka product range, and has been created by top garden designer, Andy Jones.

The garden features enigmatic woodcarvings, in the form of finger-like tendrils reaching almost 3m (10ft) high and these together with Flowform water features create a unique atmosphere in the garden.

Sebastian Parsons, founder of Elysia said: “Fundamental to biodynamics is the belief that the healthiest growing system can develop only when all the forces of nature are working in harmony. Plants are influenced not only by the physical environment but also by forces within and beyond the earth such as cosmic and lunar influences.

“Sowing, planting and harvesting are carried out to coincide with lunar cycles and the soil and compost used in the garden is energised from special plant extracts following biodynamic preparations.”

Bob Sherman, head of Gardens and Gardening at Garden Organic and a regular contributor to KG, said: “We are absolutely thrilled to host the world’s first public biodynamic garden that introduces these exciting principles to the UK.”

What do you think about biodynamics? Give us your comments here.
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Postby Cider Boys » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:44 pm

No, I'm just not brave enough.

Bio

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Postby alan refail » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:01 am

Morning Barney

Biting your tongue on this one? I think a lot of people are.

All I know about biodynamic growing is from visits to Botton Village, a Camphill community near Whitby. Impressive farms - arable, vegetables and livestock. I did form the impression that their success in growing was mainly due to great amounts of well-rotted FYM to the land. But I may be wrong.

I have to take issue with Mr PM's title for this thread, though. Biodynamic growing is firmly rooted in organic practices and is not something different.

http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/The%20Bott ... Course.doc

http://www.camphill.org.uk/guide/botton/botton.htm

http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/

Alan
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Postby crivens » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:15 am

Been using moon planting for several years now. Nothing but positive results to date. The hardest thing was finding the information about the moon phases, so I created a website to do it for me. http://www.the-gardeners-calendar.co.uk. There are now over 3000 visitors each day checking the moon planting guide and over 250,000 subscribers using the moon planting RSS feed. I think this, and the huge increase in popularity of allotments, demonstrates the acceptance of traditional and ancient methods of gardening and the rejection of chemical based solutions for pest control and fertilization.

Moon Planting has been used for thousands of years and there are records of Egyptians and Mayans using the moon to plant crops by (the Mayans also used the Sun). The basic principles where easy to follow, plant with a waxing moon and harvest by a waning moon. This is simply a method by which you can easily follow the rise and fall of the moisture content in the soil and plants, just like the tides in the sea.

Prince Charles has been using some areas of biodynamics on his farm at Highrove, including planting by the moon.

I can highly recommend moon planting as a method of managing your garden.

Crivens
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Postby David » Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Crivens, your link dosnt work....................
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Postby alan refail » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:46 pm

David,
It might if you try this one:

http://www.the-gardeners-calendar.co.uk/

Alan
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Postby Johnboy » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:06 am

Hi Crivens,
I quote one of the paragraphs of your posting:

Moon Planting has been used for thousands of years and there are records of Egyptians and Mayans using the moon to plant crops by (the Mayans also used the Sun). The basic principles where easy to follow, plant with a waxing moon and harvest by a waning moon. This is simply a method by which you can easily follow the rise and fall of the moisture content in the soil and plants, just like the tides in the sea.
-----------------------------------------------------
Unlike us lucky people who live in modern times who have a calendar the Egyptians and Mayans were so lucky to have only the Moon and the Sun to go by.
If the Bible is to believed the Egyptians were always in trouble with drought and pestilence so not a very good example to follow. If the Mayans of yesteryear were as successful as the modern Mayans of Guatemala today they too are not really a very good example to follow either because they are in a hell of a mess at this present time.
I feel that if gardeners were to follow the advice given by seed suppliers and reliable gardening books they will fair equally well without getting tied up with one hell of a lot of mumbo-jumbo.
Tell me Crivens how many Brussels Sprouts have you harvested this month or perhaps you have only thinned them out. This is the advice from the website you quote.
The claim that so many thousand people are reaping the benefits of Moon Planting well it may come as a great shock to you but those who garden using common sense runs into many millions.
I respect that you find moon planting beneficial but to expect everybody to follow your example is something that I do not accept.
My view, for what it is worth, is that it really is the biggest load of old pony that I have ever read!
JB.
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Re: Forget organics, now it’s biodynamics

Postby Mad Lizzie » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:40 am

I have seen the garden being constructed and it looks beautiful. Can't wait to visit it later and learn the principles. We did visit a permaculture garden while in Australia and it had a waterfall that oxegenated the water by circulating it on the way down, it looks like they have something similar here and apparantly it works well and produces bigger trout!
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Postby June » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:23 pm

Crivens, I have looked at your website and am lost as to where you have obtained your Moon positions from. They are totally wrong. In any Astronomical Ephemeris (this is a reference book showing the daily positions of all the planets) the Moon is in Cancer from 13:45 GMT on 15th June to 17:24 GMT on 17th June. It is then in Leo from 17:25 GMT to 00:45 GMT on 20th June. Where on earth are you getting your info from? I would also take issue with your recommendations of what to plant on Air or Fire signs as traditionally most of these are not good for planting anything.
June
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Postby crivens » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:11 pm

June wrote:Crivens, I have looked at your website and am lost as to where you have obtained your Moon positions from. They are totally wrong. In any Astronomical Ephemeris (this is a reference book showing the daily positions of all the planets) the Moon is in Cancer from 13:45 GMT on 15th June to 17:24 GMT on 17th June. It is then in Leo from 17:25 GMT to 00:45 GMT on 20th June. Where on earth are you getting your info from? I would also take issue with your recommendations of what to plant on Air or Fire signs as traditionally most of these are not good for planting anything.
June



Here is the moons current position in the sky, your data is astrological.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Yourtel?aim=3&z=1
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Postby June » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:08 pm

Hi Crivens,
Thanks for your reply. I realise you are using the constellations. Does this mean you give recommendations on what to plant on your site when the Moon is in Ophiucus?
Each to their own, but I find the tropical zodiac does work for me and this has been in worldwide usage for thousands of years. Surely this was what the ancients used anyway? Hasn't Biodynamics only been in existence since the 1920's? I think Biodynamics and planting by the moon have got somewhat mixed up on your site.
June
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Postby crivens » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:50 pm

June wrote:I realise you are using the constellations.
June

Why did you say 'Where on earth are you getting your info from?' then?

Actually it uses the sidereal zodiac, and not the constellations or the Tropical Zodiac, and for exactly the reason you say. Whilst some of us are aware of constellations like Orphiucus (which is my sign actually) most people don't. Biodynamics uses the constellations but it still uses only 12 signs, but they are not equally divided into 30deg arcs.

The reason for using the Sidereal Zodiac is so people can look up at the moon and see what constellation it is in and then plant accordingly. If they use the tropical zodiac they need to perform several calculations to work out where the moon was several thousand years ago.

The site covers Synodic, Planting by the phases of the moon, Biodynamic, planting by the unequal zodiac signs and also it covers Sidereal, or planting by the current moon sign in the sky. There is no confusion of systems they are all explained.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.
Crivens
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Postby alan refail » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:56 pm

Quote;

"I hope this helps clear up any confusion."

Well no, not really :!:

Can't we think about gardening and growing and forget the mumbo-jumbo? I use the term because it does not seem that any of you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about - or, if you have, you cannot communicate it to others.

Apologies for my frankness

Alan
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Postby crivens » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:12 pm

alan refail wrote:Quote;

"I hope this helps clear up any confusion."

Well no, not really :!:

Can't we think about gardening and growing and forget the mumbo-jumbo? I use the term because it does not seem that any of you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about - or, if you have, you cannot communicate it to others.

Apologies for my frankness

Alan


I was just answering questions raised about the current moon phases and the different planting systems. As you said in an earlier email it was going to mislead novice vegetable gardeners. So I felt an explanation was called for, especially as other people my not be so closed to alternative horticultural techniques.
Surely Alan, I'm allowed to defend my corner?
Crivens!
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Postby June » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:01 pm

Crivens, you appear to use every Lunar system on your site apart from the tropical zodiac which is used by astrologers yet you use the descriptions of water and fire signs, etc., which are astrological concepts. These are not found in any astronomical reference to my knowledge. The link you provided shows Ophiucus on the ecliptic so if this is the data you use, surely you would be using this sign in your own planting guide. But why give the signs astrological terms if you don't use astrology? I'm sure you also know that no-one has to perfom several calculations to use the tropical zodiac as this information is in any ephemeris and lunar planting books.
I must admit I totally agree with Alan and also with Johnboy on the sowing with the moon thread in seasonal tips. I would imagine most people have been wholeheartedly put off the subject by now. I'd like to apologise if I've added to the confusion. The system I use is simple but I'm aware of how tedious the whole topic has come across.
All I would say is that at best, any of these techniques are an add on and are no substitute for sound gardening knowledge of which there is much to be found on this site. Treat it as the icing on your cake if you must, but for goodness sake don't attempt it unless you understand how to bake the cake in the first place!!
June
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